0000 00:00:05,000 --> 00:00:10,000 YoubetCash.net Agen Judi Online Aman & Terpercaya 000 00:00:11,000 --> 00:00:15,000 Bonus Cashback Bola 6% Bonus Rollingan 0,80% 00 00:00:16,000 --> 00:00:20,000 Welcome Bonus Rp 25.000 Extra Bonus Tambahan Withdraw Rp 2.000.000 0 00:00:21,000 --> 00:00:25,000 CashBack Mix Parlay 100% Bonus Ajak teman 45,2% 1 00:00:03,161 --> 00:00:08,160 In 1964, Granada Television brought together a group of seven-year-olds. 2 00:00:08,161 --> 00:00:10,520 When I grow up, I want to be an astronaut. 3 00:00:10,521 --> 00:00:13,200 We have followed their lives every seven years. 4 00:00:13,201 --> 00:00:16,160 I don't want to keep still cos life, you know, don't wait for nobody. 5 00:00:16,161 --> 00:00:18,160 They've talked about their dreams... 6 00:00:18,161 --> 00:00:20,520 If I could have two girls and two boys. 7 00:00:20,521 --> 00:00:22,160 Their ambitions... 8 00:00:22,161 --> 00:00:24,160 I'd quite like to get into politics. 9 00:00:24,161 --> 00:00:26,160 And their fears for the future. 10 00:00:26,161 --> 00:00:29,160 Life is what happens while you're waiting for something else. 11 00:00:29,161 --> 00:00:32,160 I don't think life is there to be regretted. 12 00:00:32,161 --> 00:00:34,160 You've got to make the most of it while you've got it. 13 00:00:34,161 --> 00:00:37,160 That's how you become the person you are. 14 00:00:37,161 --> 00:00:40,200 It's a picture of how any person, how they change. 15 00:00:40,201 --> 00:00:44,161 Give me a child until he is seven and I will give you the man. 16 00:00:51,161 --> 00:00:55,161 We first met Paul at a children's home in West London. 17 00:00:57,161 --> 00:00:59,161 Along with Symon. 18 00:01:01,161 --> 00:01:06,160 I thought I'm old and that, enough to get a job. 19 00:01:06,161 --> 00:01:08,160 I'll just walk around... 20 00:01:08,161 --> 00:01:10,160 and see what I can find. 21 00:01:10,161 --> 00:01:13,160 They say, "Where's your father, then, you know, 22 00:01:13,161 --> 00:01:15,160 "when your mum's out at work?" 23 00:01:15,161 --> 00:01:19,161 And I just tell 'em I ain't got one. 24 00:01:20,161 --> 00:01:24,161 When Paul left the children's home, he moved to Australia. 25 00:01:25,161 --> 00:01:28,000 Were you happy at the children's home any more? 26 00:01:28,001 --> 00:01:31,160 I didn't mind that, really, because we didn't know what was going on 27 00:01:31,161 --> 00:01:33,160 because we were a bit young. 28 00:01:33,161 --> 00:01:36,160 When I was born, you know, an illegitimate child, 29 00:01:36,161 --> 00:01:38,200 you know, that's... 30 00:01:38,201 --> 00:01:40,200 something that's only whispered about. 31 00:01:40,201 --> 00:01:44,160 People, you know, feel strongly about it in those days, 32 00:01:44,161 --> 00:01:47,161 but nowadays it's... 33 00:01:48,681 --> 00:01:51,160 It's not a serious matter, the serious point is, 34 00:01:51,161 --> 00:01:53,200 is whether you stay with somebody or you leave them. 35 00:01:53,201 --> 00:01:58,160 My father got remarried. Erm... 36 00:01:58,161 --> 00:02:00,360 And how do you get on with your stepmum? 37 00:02:00,361 --> 00:02:04,160 Pretty well, but like I said before, I mean, I'm not, I'm just not close, 38 00:02:04,161 --> 00:02:06,360 I'm not really close to my father either. 39 00:02:06,361 --> 00:02:08,360 I was gonna be a policeman, 40 00:02:08,361 --> 00:02:12,680 but I thought how hard it would be to join in. 41 00:02:12,681 --> 00:02:15,160 I was gonna be a Phys Ed teacher, 42 00:02:15,161 --> 00:02:18,160 but er, one of the teachers told me that... 43 00:02:18,161 --> 00:02:20,361 you had to get up into university. 44 00:02:23,161 --> 00:02:26,200 As a young man, Paul spent many years in the building trade 45 00:02:26,201 --> 00:02:29,841 and then moved on into factory work. 46 00:02:31,161 --> 00:02:33,161 I was gonna be a film star, but... 47 00:02:35,001 --> 00:02:38,160 now I'm gonna be an electrical engineer, 48 00:02:38,161 --> 00:02:40,160 which is more to reality, really. 49 00:02:40,161 --> 00:02:42,160 By 21, Symon was working 50 00:02:42,161 --> 00:02:46,160 in the freezer room of Wall's Sausages in London. 51 00:02:46,161 --> 00:02:49,160 I know I can't stay at Wall's forever, I mean, it's just not me. 52 00:02:49,161 --> 00:02:54,160 I couldn't stay there for that long, my mind would go dead. 53 00:02:54,161 --> 00:02:57,160 Do you never feel you should be doing better jobs than these? 54 00:02:57,161 --> 00:02:59,160 Aren't you worth more than this? 55 00:02:59,161 --> 00:03:03,360 No, I haven't, really. I suppose I just like hard work, I don't know. 56 00:03:03,361 --> 00:03:05,200 Not really interested in 57 00:03:05,201 --> 00:03:08,161 moving up... up the scale. Why? 58 00:03:10,161 --> 00:03:14,160 I don't need the hassle to be the... charger, manager, or whatever. 59 00:03:14,161 --> 00:03:16,160 Tell me, do you have any girlfriends? 60 00:03:16,161 --> 00:03:18,160 Well, not many. 61 00:03:18,161 --> 00:03:22,160 What do you think about girls? Not much. 62 00:03:22,161 --> 00:03:27,840 Erm... since 21... I've got married. 63 00:03:27,841 --> 00:03:31,161 Had a couple of kids. And, erm... 64 00:03:32,161 --> 00:03:37,160 By 28, he had married Yvonne. And they had five children. 65 00:03:37,161 --> 00:03:41,160 What would you like to give your children that you never had? 66 00:03:41,161 --> 00:03:43,160 They've got everything that... 67 00:03:43,161 --> 00:03:46,160 They've even got what I never had. 68 00:03:46,161 --> 00:03:47,161 So... Which is what? 69 00:03:47,161 --> 00:03:48,161 A father, innit? 70 00:03:49,361 --> 00:03:52,161 By 35, they were divorced. 71 00:03:55,521 --> 00:03:58,840 All I want out of life is to be happy, and when I say happy, 72 00:03:58,841 --> 00:04:01,520 I want to be happily married as well. 73 00:04:01,521 --> 00:04:04,360 Well, what was it you fell in love with? What was it about him? 74 00:04:04,361 --> 00:04:09,160 His helplessness, I suppose, it was the motherly instinct in me. 75 00:04:09,161 --> 00:04:10,680 To pick him up and cuddle him, and... 76 00:04:10,681 --> 00:04:15,160 He's also very good-looking, I think, but he doesn't agree with me. 77 00:04:15,161 --> 00:04:19,161 And in the summer, he's got this cute little bum in shorts. 78 00:04:20,161 --> 00:04:25,160 In their 20s, Paul and Sue sold up, bought an old van, 79 00:04:25,161 --> 00:04:27,161 and travelled across Australia. 80 00:04:28,161 --> 00:04:31,160 I think it brought us closer together because, you know, 81 00:04:31,161 --> 00:04:34,161 we really got to know each other and we relied on each other so much. 82 00:04:35,841 --> 00:04:39,160 I'd never been so relaxed in my life. 83 00:04:39,161 --> 00:04:41,161 I felt a lot more confident in myself. 84 00:04:43,161 --> 00:04:47,161 By the time they were 28, Paul and Sue had two children. 85 00:04:48,161 --> 00:04:49,161 Katie and Robert. 86 00:04:51,001 --> 00:04:54,200 Katie did well at school and went on to university. 87 00:04:54,201 --> 00:04:58,361 The first person in her entire family ever to do so. 88 00:05:01,161 --> 00:05:03,161 Robert trained as a car mechanic. 89 00:05:07,361 --> 00:05:10,160 He met Stacy when they were teenagers 90 00:05:10,161 --> 00:05:13,161 and they now have five children. 91 00:05:17,001 --> 00:05:21,200 By the time he was 42, Symon had married Vienetta. 92 00:05:21,201 --> 00:05:24,361 Used to go out when we were younger. We met in the laundrette. 93 00:05:26,161 --> 00:05:28,160 Once a week. Once a week in the laundrette. 94 00:05:28,161 --> 00:05:32,160 Vienetta already had a daughter, Miriam. 95 00:05:32,161 --> 00:05:35,160 And she and Symon had a son, Daniel. 96 00:05:35,161 --> 00:05:38,160 Ah-ha! 97 00:05:38,161 --> 00:05:40,160 Obviously, when children come into foster care, 98 00:05:40,161 --> 00:05:43,160 family and friends are involved as well, we have to ensure that... 99 00:05:43,161 --> 00:05:48,161 By 49, Symon and Vienetta had decided to train as foster parents. 100 00:05:49,161 --> 00:05:51,160 Went to boarding school when I was young 101 00:05:51,161 --> 00:05:54,160 and I always felt that that was... 102 00:05:54,161 --> 00:05:55,161 regimental. 103 00:05:55,162 --> 00:06:00,520 They didn't allow for personal care, for loving from the adult carers, 104 00:06:00,521 --> 00:06:03,160 so I wanted to do something like that for myself, 105 00:06:03,161 --> 00:06:05,160 you know, in my own home. 106 00:06:05,161 --> 00:06:07,160 Do you know why Uncle Sam looks younger? 107 00:06:07,161 --> 00:06:09,160 Because he's so laid back. 108 00:06:09,161 --> 00:06:10,200 When we first started fostering, 109 00:06:10,201 --> 00:06:16,160 we didn't even realise that you actually got a payment for doing it. 110 00:06:16,161 --> 00:06:20,160 We just did it because we wanted to help. 111 00:06:20,161 --> 00:06:26,361 About four years ago, we were told that we'd looked after 130-odd kids. 112 00:06:28,161 --> 00:06:30,160 It's a very hard thing, 113 00:06:30,161 --> 00:06:33,161 but it's also magnificently easy when it goes well. 114 00:06:34,161 --> 00:06:36,160 I've still got five children. 115 00:06:36,161 --> 00:06:38,160 They haven't really taken 116 00:06:38,161 --> 00:06:41,160 the breakup of my first marriage too well. 117 00:06:41,161 --> 00:06:44,160 I've got still to get to grips with that and... 118 00:06:44,161 --> 00:06:47,161 get to them and make them understand that Daddy is still Daddy. 119 00:06:50,161 --> 00:06:53,160 Last year, Symon invited his entire family 120 00:06:53,161 --> 00:06:56,161 to celebrate Vienetta's birthday. 121 00:06:59,001 --> 00:07:00,160 They're all together now. 122 00:07:00,161 --> 00:07:03,360 They've come round and they've seen that Dad is still Dad, 123 00:07:03,361 --> 00:07:05,161 whatever's happened. 124 00:07:06,161 --> 00:07:11,160 Time is the healer, isn't it? You rush, and push, and pull. 125 00:07:11,161 --> 00:07:13,160 You might be able to do that with a parcel, 126 00:07:13,161 --> 00:07:15,161 but you can't do that with a person. 127 00:07:16,161 --> 00:07:22,840 It made me feel 110%, everybody together, and everybody here for me, 128 00:07:22,841 --> 00:07:24,160 it was, it was... It was nice. 129 00:07:24,161 --> 00:07:26,160 Yeah, it was beautiful. It was nice. 130 00:07:26,161 --> 00:07:29,520 So, what's happened in the last seven years since we were here? 131 00:07:29,521 --> 00:07:31,160 Grandchildren, lots of them. 132 00:07:31,161 --> 00:07:35,160 So how many have you got now? I've got ten now. 133 00:07:35,161 --> 00:07:39,160 It's lovely. It just tires me out, I haven't got the energy. 134 00:07:39,161 --> 00:07:40,161 All the time. 135 00:07:40,162 --> 00:07:44,160 Run! Run! 136 00:07:44,161 --> 00:07:47,520 What's happened in the family in the last seven years? 137 00:07:47,521 --> 00:07:49,161 Got another grandchild. 138 00:07:50,161 --> 00:07:52,161 Brody. So there's six. 139 00:07:53,161 --> 00:07:55,160 Talk nicely to him. Hey, Benny, Benny. 140 00:07:55,161 --> 00:07:58,160 Katie's a school teacher. 141 00:07:58,161 --> 00:08:01,161 She has a man in her life now. 142 00:08:02,161 --> 00:08:05,160 Very nice chap, which we're pleased about. 143 00:08:05,161 --> 00:08:07,160 Hopefully, more grandchildren. 144 00:08:07,161 --> 00:08:08,161 No pressure! 145 00:08:08,162 --> 00:08:10,160 Look at that. They do look very happy 146 00:08:10,161 --> 00:08:12,160 in all that mud, don't they, Shane? 147 00:08:12,161 --> 00:08:14,200 The fact we've been married for 40 years 148 00:08:14,201 --> 00:08:17,160 is just really a fluke, really, 149 00:08:17,161 --> 00:08:20,360 you know, like, no, but what I mean is we've tried hard 150 00:08:20,361 --> 00:08:22,160 and that's part of the success, 151 00:08:22,161 --> 00:08:24,200 but you don't know when you're gonna get married 152 00:08:24,201 --> 00:08:29,161 that it's gonna succeed and go for 40 years, you have no idea. 153 00:08:42,441 --> 00:08:44,440 You can see Windsor Castle from that house. 154 00:08:44,441 --> 00:08:46,280 Oh, look at that. 155 00:08:46,281 --> 00:08:47,440 We don't see each other... 156 00:08:47,441 --> 00:08:51,440 Over the years, Paul and Sue have met up with Symon and Vienetta 157 00:08:51,441 --> 00:08:53,440 when visiting family in England. 158 00:08:53,441 --> 00:08:55,441 Come on, let me get you organised. 159 00:08:56,441 --> 00:08:58,440 But now, for the first time, 160 00:08:58,441 --> 00:09:01,440 Symon and Vienetta have come to Australia. 161 00:09:01,441 --> 00:09:03,440 Hello! Hello. 162 00:09:03,441 --> 00:09:06,440 We got on really well when we visited them in England. 163 00:09:06,441 --> 00:09:09,440 I think Symon and Paul are very similar. 164 00:09:09,441 --> 00:09:12,480 Symon's very creative, sort of artistic. 165 00:09:12,481 --> 00:09:14,440 A beautiful person to be around. 166 00:09:14,441 --> 00:09:16,281 And Vienetta, well, her and I are 167 00:09:16,321 --> 00:09:18,961 just two peas out of the same pod. 168 00:09:20,441 --> 00:09:24,120 I just think it's a wonderful thing to be able to invite them 169 00:09:24,121 --> 00:09:25,440 and they be able to come out here 170 00:09:25,441 --> 00:09:28,480 because it's not like it's just across the road, it's a big trip, 171 00:09:28,481 --> 00:09:32,440 and they're gonna share Christmas with us and our family. 172 00:09:32,441 --> 00:09:34,440 Would your life have been totally different 173 00:09:34,441 --> 00:09:37,640 if you'd had the chance Paul had to come to Australia? 174 00:09:37,641 --> 00:09:40,121 For me then, it probably would have been better. 175 00:09:41,481 --> 00:09:45,440 To actually try and figure it out now, would it have been better? 176 00:09:45,441 --> 00:09:49,440 I wouldn't wanna say because your life is as it is, 177 00:09:49,441 --> 00:09:51,441 so not as it could be. Yeah. 178 00:09:53,441 --> 00:09:57,440 I don't like the big boys hitting us 179 00:09:57,441 --> 00:10:02,440 and the prefects sending us out, out for nothing. 180 00:10:02,441 --> 00:10:06,280 And this park, I remember this park, but I've never walked down it... 181 00:10:06,281 --> 00:10:09,440 At 21, when Paul was in London, we decided to take him and Symon 182 00:10:09,441 --> 00:10:11,640 back to the children's home. 183 00:10:11,641 --> 00:10:13,440 Why were you there? 184 00:10:13,441 --> 00:10:17,440 I believe it was a divorce custody dispute. 185 00:10:17,441 --> 00:10:21,440 Most children at that age, if they were taken away from their parents, 186 00:10:21,441 --> 00:10:22,800 they wouldn't be overly happy. 187 00:10:22,801 --> 00:10:23,960 No. 188 00:10:23,961 --> 00:10:26,640 Did you get to see much of your parents? 189 00:10:26,641 --> 00:10:30,441 I can only vaguely remember my dad coming... 190 00:10:31,441 --> 00:10:33,441 to visit every now and then. 191 00:10:35,121 --> 00:10:38,120 I was there for about six years. 192 00:10:38,121 --> 00:10:40,441 And the only thing I really, really missed was my mum. 193 00:10:42,441 --> 00:10:45,440 She was everything to me and she wasn't there. 194 00:10:45,441 --> 00:10:48,440 Remember the tiles? 195 00:10:48,441 --> 00:10:51,440 She couldn't cope with the situation of having to look for me 196 00:10:51,441 --> 00:10:54,961 and she didn't have a place of her own at the time. 197 00:10:56,441 --> 00:10:59,440 Remember Midgey? He was a real bastard. 198 00:10:59,441 --> 00:11:02,441 'You felt that you were kept in order all the time.' 199 00:11:03,441 --> 00:11:08,280 'Kids did get the cane if they were caught doing anything wrong.' 200 00:11:08,281 --> 00:11:11,440 So did you get caned? Not that I can remember. 201 00:11:11,441 --> 00:11:14,440 I was a very, very good boy. 202 00:11:14,441 --> 00:11:16,640 He was the tailor. 203 00:11:16,641 --> 00:11:18,280 I remember him. 204 00:11:18,281 --> 00:11:20,120 I didn't get a lot of cuddles, 205 00:11:20,121 --> 00:11:22,440 and affects you, the way you treat your kids, 206 00:11:22,441 --> 00:11:24,440 in as much as you try to do it more, 207 00:11:24,441 --> 00:11:28,440 but you probably don't do it as much as some other people do. 208 00:11:28,441 --> 00:11:31,440 I wanted to love my children, 209 00:11:31,441 --> 00:11:34,440 but I used to try to give them discipline instead. 210 00:11:34,441 --> 00:11:36,440 Instead of... 211 00:11:36,441 --> 00:11:38,800 just giving them the little hugs and stuff they needed, 212 00:11:38,801 --> 00:11:42,440 that I knew they needed because I needed it. 213 00:11:42,441 --> 00:11:45,440 The headmaster's son used to shoot the squirrels off the trees. 214 00:11:45,441 --> 00:11:49,440 'I definitely felt insecure. I can still remember that.' 215 00:11:49,441 --> 00:11:51,640 I-I didn't feel insecure... 216 00:11:51,641 --> 00:11:54,440 when I was being told be here, 217 00:11:54,441 --> 00:11:57,440 be there, do this, do that. Yeah. 218 00:11:57,441 --> 00:12:00,441 Where I felt insecure was outside of all of that. 219 00:12:02,121 --> 00:12:04,440 You can't believe after so many years 220 00:12:04,441 --> 00:12:08,440 that things have really not changed all that much, you know? 221 00:12:08,441 --> 00:12:11,440 Paul took Symon to the children's home where he lived 222 00:12:11,441 --> 00:12:15,440 when he first arrived in Australia. 223 00:12:15,441 --> 00:12:18,800 So, how old were you when you first came here? 224 00:12:18,801 --> 00:12:22,440 I was somewhere between seven and eight years of age, I would say. 225 00:12:22,441 --> 00:12:25,440 We pretty much landed in Australia... 226 00:12:25,441 --> 00:12:28,120 wasn't all that long before my father arranged for us 227 00:12:28,121 --> 00:12:29,440 to come up here and live. 228 00:12:29,441 --> 00:12:32,440 And how was it to be here? 229 00:12:32,441 --> 00:12:36,440 The best childhood memories I've got is of being up here. 230 00:12:36,441 --> 00:12:38,440 Why didn't he take you home to live with them? 231 00:12:38,441 --> 00:12:41,440 Well, I think Dad was a coat and dress designer, 232 00:12:41,441 --> 00:12:44,440 and they were also trying to set a house up, 233 00:12:44,441 --> 00:12:49,440 and that's just the way that they chose to do it. 234 00:12:49,441 --> 00:12:51,280 My dad, despite... 235 00:12:51,281 --> 00:12:53,440 what other members of the family might have... 236 00:12:53,441 --> 00:12:54,960 He was a good man, he was a kind man. 237 00:12:54,961 --> 00:12:56,441 He was strict, but he was kind. 238 00:12:58,961 --> 00:13:01,440 You know, I was always frightened of everything as a young child 239 00:13:01,441 --> 00:13:04,440 and I think it, you know, slowly but surely 240 00:13:04,441 --> 00:13:07,441 it just slowly brought me out of myself. 241 00:13:08,441 --> 00:13:10,440 Like Paul, I was very shy when I was young 242 00:13:10,441 --> 00:13:13,440 and I think this place would give you 243 00:13:13,441 --> 00:13:15,481 the confidence to do things for yourself. 244 00:13:17,441 --> 00:13:20,800 I think my main weakness is I don't really take a grip of life. 245 00:13:20,801 --> 00:13:24,440 I know if I ever wanted to get on, I could do it. 246 00:13:24,441 --> 00:13:28,440 I think what it is, really, I'm just waiting for an excuse to use it. 247 00:13:28,441 --> 00:13:30,440 This one just there. Yeah, yeah. 248 00:13:30,441 --> 00:13:33,440 Both the wives say that you both lack confidence. 249 00:13:33,441 --> 00:13:37,440 The lack of confidence, you sort of second guess yourself 250 00:13:37,441 --> 00:13:39,440 or question yourself all the time. 251 00:13:39,441 --> 00:13:43,280 Just like just now, I noticed we both looked at each other 252 00:13:43,281 --> 00:13:46,440 because we both knew exactly what we were going to say. 253 00:13:46,441 --> 00:13:50,441 But we waited, we waited for the other one to say it. Yeah. 254 00:13:53,441 --> 00:13:59,440 What's been the saddest, toughest time for you in your life so far? 255 00:13:59,441 --> 00:14:01,440 Oh, I think early years, 256 00:14:01,441 --> 00:14:04,440 going away from the home and going to the boarding school, 257 00:14:04,441 --> 00:14:07,280 and living away from home here as well. 258 00:14:07,281 --> 00:14:08,440 Here's Granddad. Hey. 259 00:14:08,441 --> 00:14:11,441 My father died approximately four years ago. 260 00:14:12,641 --> 00:14:14,440 That was very sad. 261 00:14:14,441 --> 00:14:17,441 He was the one constant in my life. 262 00:14:21,641 --> 00:14:23,441 Sorry. 263 00:14:25,441 --> 00:14:28,440 Even though I knew my mum wasn't well at all 264 00:14:28,441 --> 00:14:33,440 and she was probably dying, I still felt she'd be there forever. 265 00:14:33,441 --> 00:14:38,640 When she actually died, there were so many things that I never asked. 266 00:14:38,641 --> 00:14:42,440 Why did you not marry Dad or stay with him? 267 00:14:42,441 --> 00:14:44,960 So there were so many things that... 268 00:14:44,961 --> 00:14:47,440 were left unsaid. 269 00:14:47,441 --> 00:14:50,960 Say you had a wife... 270 00:14:50,961 --> 00:14:54,440 say you had to eat what they cooked you, 271 00:14:54,441 --> 00:14:59,120 and say I don't like greens - well, I don't. 272 00:14:59,121 --> 00:15:02,960 One of the fundamental premises of this series of films 273 00:15:02,961 --> 00:15:06,800 is you can see the man in the seven-year-old child. 274 00:15:06,801 --> 00:15:08,480 Basically, what you see is 275 00:15:08,481 --> 00:15:12,480 a seven-year-old shy, not very confident, worried about everything, 276 00:15:12,481 --> 00:15:15,440 that's what I was like... then 277 00:15:15,441 --> 00:15:19,440 and, and to a great degree, still like that. 278 00:15:19,441 --> 00:15:21,440 I'm not making light of what I have achieved, 279 00:15:21,441 --> 00:15:25,440 but I wasn't going to make any wonderful achievements. 280 00:15:25,441 --> 00:15:28,440 I think that was pretty obvious I was going to be just a worker. 281 00:15:28,441 --> 00:15:30,441 Hiya, Paul. How are you? 282 00:15:34,441 --> 00:15:38,640 OK, everybody, tucker's ready! Anyone for some food? 283 00:15:38,641 --> 00:15:40,440 Do you have any regrets? 284 00:15:40,441 --> 00:15:44,280 There's just no place for regrets in this world. 285 00:15:44,281 --> 00:15:46,440 But I mean, I've been lucky, meeting Susan, 286 00:15:46,441 --> 00:15:49,641 I've been with her longer than I was with my dad. 287 00:15:51,441 --> 00:15:55,960 And she's been an unbelievable influence on my life. 288 00:15:55,961 --> 00:15:59,441 Getting me to see the positive side of things, rather than the negative. 289 00:16:00,441 --> 00:16:04,480 Maybe one regret is probably would have liked more children. 290 00:16:04,481 --> 00:16:07,800 I feel OK just getting on with life. 291 00:16:07,801 --> 00:16:10,440 Just sort of keeping up. 292 00:16:10,441 --> 00:16:13,441 But, er, I know if I really wanted to, I could get on. 293 00:16:14,481 --> 00:16:16,440 The sooner you understand who you are, 294 00:16:16,441 --> 00:16:19,281 the sooner you understand what you can do. 295 00:16:20,441 --> 00:16:24,641 It's taken me... virtually 60 years to understand who I am. 296 00:16:36,281 --> 00:16:42,281 When I leave the school, I'm going to College Court. 297 00:16:44,281 --> 00:16:47,280 And then I will be going to Westminster boarding school 298 00:16:47,281 --> 00:16:49,281 if I pass the exam. 299 00:16:50,281 --> 00:16:55,281 And then we think I'm going to, erm, Cambridge and Trinity Hall. 300 00:16:57,281 --> 00:17:00,280 John went to Westminster. 301 00:17:00,281 --> 00:17:02,801 Then on to read law at Christchurch, Oxford. 302 00:17:03,961 --> 00:17:07,280 I do believe parents have a right to educate their children 303 00:17:07,281 --> 00:17:10,640 as they think fit. I think someone who works on the assembly line 304 00:17:10,641 --> 00:17:13,280 and some of these car factories, earning a huge wage, 305 00:17:13,281 --> 00:17:14,480 could well afford to send 306 00:17:14,481 --> 00:17:17,280 their children to private school, if they wanted to. 307 00:17:17,281 --> 00:17:21,280 At 21, we asked him what career he would pursue. 308 00:17:21,281 --> 00:17:22,480 Might be at the bar. 309 00:17:22,481 --> 00:17:24,281 Doing what? 310 00:17:25,281 --> 00:17:27,280 Perhaps chancery practice. 311 00:17:27,281 --> 00:17:31,280 I now have a career. I'm a barrister. Erm... 312 00:17:31,281 --> 00:17:34,280 Other than that, life chugs along in varying degrees. 313 00:17:34,281 --> 00:17:37,280 Well, in a sense, not very much has changed in my career 314 00:17:37,281 --> 00:17:38,281 over the last 14 years, 315 00:17:38,282 --> 00:17:41,280 I'm still a barrister, I still wear a curly white wig. 316 00:17:41,281 --> 00:17:44,320 Erm, the only visible difference, I suppose, 317 00:17:44,321 --> 00:17:47,280 is I wear a silk gown because I'm now a QC. 318 00:17:47,281 --> 00:17:50,640 What's changed in your life since we last talked? 319 00:17:50,641 --> 00:17:54,280 Seven years older, seven years fatter. A bit less hair. 320 00:17:54,281 --> 00:17:56,280 I mean, nothing much, really. 321 00:17:56,281 --> 00:18:00,960 I mean, you know, on a more serious level, I'm still... 322 00:18:00,961 --> 00:18:02,280 A barrister, a QC. 323 00:18:02,281 --> 00:18:04,280 When boys go around with girls, 324 00:18:04,281 --> 00:18:07,280 they don't pay attention to what they're doing. 325 00:18:07,281 --> 00:18:09,280 My grandmother had an accident 326 00:18:09,281 --> 00:18:13,281 because her boyfriend was kissing his girlfriend in the street. 327 00:18:14,281 --> 00:18:18,280 By 35, John had married Claire, 328 00:18:18,281 --> 00:18:21,640 the daughter of a former ambassador to Bulgaria. 329 00:18:21,641 --> 00:18:26,280 It is coincidental that we met, but it's obvious that 330 00:18:26,281 --> 00:18:31,280 the Balkan connection was a strong mutual interest. 331 00:18:31,281 --> 00:18:34,280 It is a great pleasure to welcome you all here tonight 332 00:18:34,281 --> 00:18:36,280 on behalf of Friends of Bulgaria. 333 00:18:36,281 --> 00:18:41,280 My mother, in fact, is from Bulgaria and that explains why for me, 334 00:18:41,281 --> 00:18:43,280 Bulgaria is an especially important place. 335 00:18:43,281 --> 00:18:46,281 The hounds are over there, I think. 336 00:18:47,281 --> 00:18:50,280 I think the more you've had out of the country, 337 00:18:50,281 --> 00:18:54,281 the more privileges you're born with, the greater your duty is. 338 00:18:55,321 --> 00:18:59,320 I still feel as I did when I was 21 that it's important for 339 00:18:59,321 --> 00:19:03,800 people who have had advantages to try and put as much back 340 00:19:03,801 --> 00:19:08,480 and to help others less fortunate than themselves if they can. 341 00:19:08,481 --> 00:19:12,280 Recently, I think this charity, Friends of Bulgaria, 342 00:19:12,281 --> 00:19:16,280 is something that's very important in my life. 343 00:19:16,281 --> 00:19:21,280 When we first came, the country really was on its knees. 344 00:19:21,281 --> 00:19:23,960 I remember we were taking basic things, like anaesthetics, 345 00:19:23,961 --> 00:19:27,280 round to hospitals, and blood supplies. 346 00:19:27,281 --> 00:19:28,281 And all of that's changed. 347 00:19:28,282 --> 00:19:31,280 Bulgaria's been in the EU now since, erm, 348 00:19:31,281 --> 00:19:35,801 I think about 2006 and it's slowly catching up. 349 00:19:38,801 --> 00:19:43,280 We're in Veliko Tarnovo, which is the medieval capital of Bulgaria. 350 00:19:43,281 --> 00:19:47,640 And Friends of Bulgaria, the charity of which I'm now chairman, 351 00:19:47,641 --> 00:19:49,960 we have various projects. 352 00:19:49,961 --> 00:19:53,320 We are here to see how those projects are going along. 353 00:19:53,321 --> 00:19:57,280 This plaque here commemorates my great-grandfather, 354 00:19:57,281 --> 00:19:59,280 who's sitting in the front row. 355 00:19:59,281 --> 00:20:02,280 By then, he'd already been a leader of the revolution 356 00:20:02,281 --> 00:20:04,280 against the Turks in Plovdiv, 357 00:20:04,281 --> 00:20:08,280 and actually, he'd been condemned to death because he was captured. 358 00:20:08,281 --> 00:20:12,280 He also did an awful lot for charity. 359 00:20:12,281 --> 00:20:15,280 I'm sure he keeps me up to my mark. 360 00:20:15,281 --> 00:20:21,280 I do feel I'd like to continue the tradition of doing good things 361 00:20:21,281 --> 00:20:25,480 to help people here, even if I don't quite have his means personally, 362 00:20:25,481 --> 00:20:27,281 it's on a more modest scale. 363 00:20:29,641 --> 00:20:31,280 I feel I could go on forever, 364 00:20:31,281 --> 00:20:33,480 but the trouble is many of my solicitor clients 365 00:20:33,481 --> 00:20:35,280 are themselves retiring 366 00:20:35,281 --> 00:20:38,280 and, you know, the worry is I'll end up with no clients. 367 00:20:38,281 --> 00:20:40,280 So no clients, no cases. 368 00:20:40,281 --> 00:20:44,280 So as I understand it, we're going to meet three of the children who... 369 00:20:44,281 --> 00:20:47,280 So what would you do when it comes time to retire? 370 00:20:47,281 --> 00:20:48,281 I won't be bored. 371 00:20:48,281 --> 00:20:49,281 I love travel. 372 00:20:49,282 --> 00:20:53,320 We're still riding, still enjoying the English countryside. 373 00:20:53,321 --> 00:20:58,280 I did have a terrible fall from a horse about two years ago 374 00:20:58,281 --> 00:21:01,280 so that was dicing with death, I had a brain haemorrhage 375 00:21:01,281 --> 00:21:04,121 and, erm, that was definitely unfunny. 376 00:21:07,121 --> 00:21:12,120 I can still play the piano a bit. I'm not as good as I used to be. 377 00:21:12,121 --> 00:21:13,960 A very nonchalant little theme. You know? 378 00:21:13,961 --> 00:21:15,378 Butter wouldn't melt in its mouth. 379 00:21:19,281 --> 00:21:20,960 Whether it's old age and arthritis, 380 00:21:20,961 --> 00:21:23,280 or whether it's falling off horses too many times, 381 00:21:23,281 --> 00:21:25,280 I don't know, but I mean, I don't feel I've got 382 00:21:25,281 --> 00:21:27,281 quite the dexterity in my fingers. 383 00:21:29,641 --> 00:21:32,280 Certainly I can never tell the difference between you playing 384 00:21:32,281 --> 00:21:34,320 and the CD playing when I'm out of the room. 385 00:21:34,321 --> 00:21:36,280 Yeah, very good. Very good. 386 00:21:36,281 --> 00:21:39,280 Well, she's very diplomatic. No, no, it's true. 387 00:21:39,281 --> 00:21:41,280 Are you ambitious? Yes. 388 00:21:41,281 --> 00:21:45,280 What for? Well, fame. 389 00:21:45,281 --> 00:21:46,961 And power. 390 00:21:48,281 --> 00:21:52,120 What sort of power? Political power. 391 00:21:52,121 --> 00:21:54,280 I'd quite like to go into politics, but I mean, that's, you know, 392 00:21:54,281 --> 00:21:56,280 easier said than done. 393 00:21:56,281 --> 00:21:59,280 I don't know why I felt like that, but I did 394 00:21:59,281 --> 00:22:01,280 and maybe it's because all the Bulgarian ancestors 395 00:22:01,281 --> 00:22:04,280 were all prime ministers and things like that. 396 00:22:04,281 --> 00:22:07,280 But I mean, the truth is I've been a big disappointment to myself 397 00:22:07,281 --> 00:22:09,320 because, erm... 398 00:22:09,321 --> 00:22:13,280 I've decided not to throw my hat into the ring for politics. 399 00:22:13,281 --> 00:22:16,280 And I don't have any regrets, if the truth be told. 400 00:22:16,281 --> 00:22:20,280 How do you think England will change over the next few years? 401 00:22:20,281 --> 00:22:21,480 Not very much. 402 00:22:21,481 --> 00:22:24,800 England is too English, if you see what I mean. 403 00:22:24,801 --> 00:22:29,280 People who have had things going well for them really ought to stay 404 00:22:29,281 --> 00:22:32,280 and sort of help the country out when it's, you know, 405 00:22:32,281 --> 00:22:34,120 things aren't going very well. 406 00:22:34,121 --> 00:22:36,640 I don't believe in all this pulling one's money out. 407 00:22:36,641 --> 00:22:39,280 Where do you stand on Brexit? 408 00:22:39,281 --> 00:22:41,280 I don't mind saying I voted remain. 409 00:22:41,281 --> 00:22:46,280 I can't say I'm a fantastically enthusiastic European 410 00:22:46,281 --> 00:22:48,280 wearing my English hat. 411 00:22:48,281 --> 00:22:49,281 But on the other hand, 412 00:22:49,282 --> 00:22:53,281 I thought it was a leap into the dark that we didn't need to take. 413 00:22:56,281 --> 00:22:59,280 I blame quite a few politicians. 414 00:22:59,281 --> 00:23:01,280 I suppose I blame David Cameron 415 00:23:01,281 --> 00:23:06,280 because I think the decision to hold a referendum was a mistake 416 00:23:06,281 --> 00:23:08,280 and it's much too complicated a question 417 00:23:08,281 --> 00:23:12,281 to submit to a simple yes or no answer. 418 00:23:14,281 --> 00:23:19,280 I think it's not a bad idea to pay for schools because if we didn't, 419 00:23:19,281 --> 00:23:22,120 schools would be so nasty and crowded. 420 00:23:22,121 --> 00:23:26,280 The world now is very different from what it was when we were seven. 421 00:23:26,281 --> 00:23:28,280 I think there were... 422 00:23:28,281 --> 00:23:31,800 inequalities in British society at that stage, 423 00:23:31,801 --> 00:23:34,281 which I must say I don't see any more. 424 00:23:35,281 --> 00:23:38,280 'Something I did slightly object to in the programmes, 425 00:23:38,281 --> 00:23:40,280 'we were shown at the age of seven' 426 00:23:40,281 --> 00:23:42,280 outlining sort of the academic sort of career 427 00:23:42,281 --> 00:23:45,280 that most of us did in fact pursue, you know. 428 00:23:45,281 --> 00:23:47,280 It was presented as if it was just part of 429 00:23:47,281 --> 00:23:50,280 some indestructible birthright that we went to all of these places 430 00:23:50,281 --> 00:23:52,280 and I thought that was unfair and it didn't show us 431 00:23:52,281 --> 00:23:54,320 sort of having to do beastly jobs in the holidays. 432 00:23:54,321 --> 00:23:59,280 If you're talking about people from my background, I think... 433 00:23:59,281 --> 00:24:01,800 life is probably more difficult for them 434 00:24:01,801 --> 00:24:03,280 because there's more competition. 435 00:24:03,281 --> 00:24:06,280 So many more people go to university, 436 00:24:06,281 --> 00:24:10,480 no-one cares at all what background people go to. 437 00:24:10,481 --> 00:24:14,120 People recruit to get the best people for the job 438 00:24:14,121 --> 00:24:15,280 that they have to offer. 439 00:24:15,281 --> 00:24:19,280 Sean McEnessie got three minuses in a day. 440 00:24:19,281 --> 00:24:20,281 And he's a pest. 441 00:24:20,282 --> 00:24:23,280 'It has to be said that I bitterly regret that 442 00:24:23,281 --> 00:24:26,280 'the headmaster of the school where I was when I was seven 443 00:24:26,281 --> 00:24:29,280 'pushed me forward for this series.' 444 00:24:29,281 --> 00:24:30,640 Because every seven years, 445 00:24:30,641 --> 00:24:34,120 a little pill of poison is injected into, erm... 446 00:24:34,121 --> 00:24:35,960 I know. Well, that's, that's... 447 00:24:35,961 --> 00:24:37,280 Well, it's the truth. 448 00:24:37,281 --> 00:24:41,280 I'm much more down to earth as a person than I might have ended up 449 00:24:41,281 --> 00:24:42,281 when I was seven. 450 00:24:42,282 --> 00:24:44,280 And that was probably because, you know, 451 00:24:44,281 --> 00:24:48,280 I did a year and more in the Army before going up to Oxford 452 00:24:48,281 --> 00:24:51,280 and, you know, there were various things 453 00:24:51,281 --> 00:24:53,280 that introduced me to the real world. 454 00:24:53,281 --> 00:24:56,480 Whereas, I could have been stuck in an ivory tower. 455 00:24:56,481 --> 00:25:02,480 What viewers were never told is that my father died when I was aged nine, 456 00:25:02,481 --> 00:25:04,280 leaving my mother 457 00:25:04,281 --> 00:25:07,280 in very uncomfortable financial circumstances. 458 00:25:07,281 --> 00:25:10,280 She had to go out to work... 459 00:25:10,281 --> 00:25:13,280 to see us through school and that, you know, 460 00:25:13,281 --> 00:25:15,281 I got a scholarship to Oxford. 461 00:25:17,281 --> 00:25:21,280 You know, I don't regard myself as particularly typical of the type 462 00:25:21,281 --> 00:25:24,280 that I was no doubt selected to represent. 463 00:25:24,281 --> 00:25:27,480 I mean, apart from anything else, I'm three quarters foreign, 464 00:25:27,481 --> 00:25:31,800 which is an odd beginning for... well, one of the papers described me 465 00:25:31,801 --> 00:25:35,281 after 21 as the archetypal Tory squire. 466 00:25:37,281 --> 00:25:39,280 What's the most important thing in your life? 467 00:25:39,281 --> 00:25:42,280 My wife, my family and friends. 468 00:25:42,281 --> 00:25:46,280 My homes. If I'm allowed a fourth, I'd say my animals. 469 00:25:46,281 --> 00:25:49,280 How do you think you've changed since you were seven? 470 00:25:49,281 --> 00:25:52,281 Well, I mean, one grows so slowly that one never notices. 471 00:25:53,281 --> 00:25:57,280 Any regrets about decisions you've made in your life? 472 00:25:57,281 --> 00:25:59,280 No, I can't say that. 473 00:25:59,281 --> 00:26:00,320 But it's not really my character, 474 00:26:00,321 --> 00:26:03,280 I always try and make the best of everything, 475 00:26:03,281 --> 00:26:05,281 even if it's not the best situation you're in. 476 00:26:20,281 --> 00:26:23,280 Do you have any boyfriends, Suzy? 477 00:26:23,281 --> 00:26:25,640 Yes. 478 00:26:25,641 --> 00:26:28,280 He lives up in Scotland. 479 00:26:28,281 --> 00:26:30,641 And I think he's 13. 480 00:26:32,281 --> 00:26:33,698 Have you got any boyfriends, Suzy? 481 00:26:37,801 --> 00:26:40,280 What is your attitude towards marriage? 482 00:26:40,281 --> 00:26:43,280 Well, I don't know, I mean, I haven't given it a lot of thought 483 00:26:43,281 --> 00:26:45,281 because I'm very, very cynical about it. 484 00:26:46,281 --> 00:26:50,280 I was the only child going through their parents splitting up aged 14, 485 00:26:50,281 --> 00:26:53,280 all at a very vulnerable age and it does cut you up. 486 00:26:53,281 --> 00:26:56,280 But there's no point in them staying together for me 487 00:26:56,281 --> 00:27:00,280 because it was worse, I mean, the rows, and... it's, it's worse. 488 00:27:00,281 --> 00:27:04,320 When I last saw you at 21, you were nervous, you were chain-smoking, 489 00:27:04,321 --> 00:27:07,640 you were uptight, and now you seem happy. 490 00:27:07,641 --> 00:27:10,800 What's happened to you over these last seven years? 491 00:27:10,801 --> 00:27:13,280 I suppose Rupert. 492 00:27:13,281 --> 00:27:17,481 I'll give you some credit. Thank you. I'm now chain-smoking. 493 00:27:18,801 --> 00:27:22,280 I'm not very children-minded at the moment 494 00:27:22,281 --> 00:27:23,740 and I don't know if I ever will be. 495 00:27:25,641 --> 00:27:29,280 What do you think about them? I don't like babies. 496 00:27:29,281 --> 00:27:32,280 What was the biggest shocks to you 497 00:27:32,281 --> 00:27:35,280 when you suddenly were confronted with a small baby? 498 00:27:35,281 --> 00:27:39,281 The panic set in, I think, that I wasn't going to be able to cope. 499 00:27:41,281 --> 00:27:44,280 We were lucky, we had a very good 500 00:27:44,281 --> 00:27:47,280 family unit with them growing up 501 00:27:47,281 --> 00:27:48,480 and that meant an awful lot to me, 502 00:27:48,481 --> 00:27:53,280 that I was able to do that for them because I never had it for myself. 503 00:27:53,281 --> 00:27:56,280 What do you think about making this programme? 504 00:27:56,281 --> 00:27:59,281 I just think it's just ridiculous, I don't see any point in doing it. 505 00:27:59,481 --> 00:28:01,281 There's a lot of baggage that gets 506 00:28:01,361 --> 00:28:03,241 stirred up every seven years for me 507 00:28:03,281 --> 00:28:07,801 that I find quite, that I find very hard to, to deal with. 508 00:28:09,121 --> 00:28:10,280 I don't know what happened. 509 00:28:10,281 --> 00:28:12,641 I was quite adamant I wasn't going to do it. 510 00:28:13,961 --> 00:28:16,281 And then... 511 00:28:17,281 --> 00:28:23,280 I don't know, I suppose I have this ridiculous sense of loyalty to it. 512 00:28:23,281 --> 00:28:24,281 Even though I hate it. 513 00:28:24,281 --> 00:28:25,281 Hello. 514 00:28:25,282 --> 00:28:29,281 Suzy decided not to take part in 63 Up. 515 00:28:44,721 --> 00:28:46,760 When I grow up, I want to be an astronaut, 516 00:28:46,761 --> 00:28:51,720 but if I can't be an astronaut, I think I'll be a coach driver. 517 00:28:51,721 --> 00:28:54,720 This is probably linked up with the fact I want to travel. 518 00:28:54,721 --> 00:28:56,400 I mean, my thoughts haven't really changed. 519 00:28:56,401 --> 00:28:58,720 Although I definitely wouldn't like to be a coach driver now. 520 00:28:58,721 --> 00:28:59,721 Watch this. 521 00:28:59,722 --> 00:29:02,720 Neil grew up in a Liverpool suburb with his friend Peter 522 00:29:02,721 --> 00:29:06,721 and had dreams of going to Oxford, but didn't get in. 523 00:29:08,721 --> 00:29:10,760 Instead, he went to Aberdeen University, 524 00:29:10,761 --> 00:29:13,760 but dropped out after the first term. 525 00:29:13,761 --> 00:29:19,721 At 21, Neil was working on a building site and living in a squat. 526 00:29:20,721 --> 00:29:23,720 I would like to be somebody in a position of importance 527 00:29:23,721 --> 00:29:25,560 and I've always thought this. 528 00:29:25,561 --> 00:29:27,720 Erm... But I don't think I'm the right sort of person 529 00:29:27,721 --> 00:29:29,720 to carry the responsibility for whatever it is. 530 00:29:29,721 --> 00:29:31,401 I always thought, well, I'd love to be... 531 00:29:33,721 --> 00:29:36,720 possibly love to be in politics 532 00:29:36,721 --> 00:29:37,721 or something like this. 533 00:29:39,721 --> 00:29:43,080 At 28, we found Neil homeless, 534 00:29:43,081 --> 00:29:45,720 wandering around the west coast of Scotland. 535 00:29:45,721 --> 00:29:48,720 If the money runs out, well, then for a few days, 536 00:29:48,721 --> 00:29:51,760 there's nowhere to go to, that's just, that's all you can do. 537 00:29:51,761 --> 00:29:54,721 I simply have to find the warmest shed I can find. 538 00:29:55,721 --> 00:29:59,720 At 35, he was living in a council estate 539 00:29:59,721 --> 00:30:02,721 on the most northerly part of Britain, the Shetland Islands. 540 00:30:04,721 --> 00:30:07,720 What would you like to be doing, say, in seven years? 541 00:30:07,721 --> 00:30:10,720 I can think of all kinds of things that I'd like to be doing. 542 00:30:10,721 --> 00:30:15,720 The real question is what am I, what am I likely to be doing? 543 00:30:15,721 --> 00:30:17,400 What are you likely to be doing? 544 00:30:17,401 --> 00:30:19,720 That's a horrible question. 545 00:30:19,721 --> 00:30:23,720 Erm... I tend to think the most likely answer is that 546 00:30:23,721 --> 00:30:27,721 I'll be wandering homeless around the streets of London. 547 00:30:31,721 --> 00:30:35,720 Can I just point out some of the considerable disadvantages? 548 00:30:35,721 --> 00:30:37,720 Erm, first of all, they are geographically... 549 00:30:37,721 --> 00:30:40,760 At 42, Neil had moved to London 550 00:30:40,761 --> 00:30:44,720 and was a Liberal Democrat on Hackney Council. 551 00:30:44,721 --> 00:30:46,720 While I was in Shetland, I felt very strongly that 552 00:30:46,721 --> 00:30:50,720 I should become involved in politics simply because I felt 553 00:30:50,721 --> 00:30:53,720 I was not achieving anything in the ways I really, I really wanted to. 554 00:30:53,721 --> 00:30:56,720 By 49, Neil had left London, 555 00:30:56,721 --> 00:30:59,720 moved to Cumbria in the north-west of England, 556 00:30:59,721 --> 00:31:04,720 and was a Liberal Democrat member of his local district council. 557 00:31:04,721 --> 00:31:07,720 Neil Hughes is the Liberal Democrat candidate. 558 00:31:07,721 --> 00:31:09,720 I and the Liberal Democrats 559 00:31:09,721 --> 00:31:12,720 want to see a just and fair society, in which everyone... 560 00:31:12,721 --> 00:31:17,240 In 2006, I was invited to go to Australia to give a talk. 561 00:31:17,241 --> 00:31:20,720 And the chap who introduced me said, 562 00:31:20,721 --> 00:31:24,720 "Neil is clearly such a profoundly-motivated politician 563 00:31:24,721 --> 00:31:26,720 "that we can all expect to see him 564 00:31:26,721 --> 00:31:28,720 "as Prime Minister of the United Kingdom." 565 00:31:28,721 --> 00:31:30,720 Now, this wasn't a joke, I assure you. 566 00:31:30,721 --> 00:31:34,720 He said this with absolute seriousness. Now, it was ludicrous. 567 00:31:34,721 --> 00:31:39,720 But this is how wildly-skewed the perceptions have become. 568 00:31:39,721 --> 00:31:42,400 I mean, do you think I really would have been invited to Australia 569 00:31:42,401 --> 00:31:43,720 if they were aware that 570 00:31:43,721 --> 00:31:46,720 I was someone who lives on a few quid a week benefit 571 00:31:46,721 --> 00:31:50,920 and has as much chance of changing the future of the United Kingdom 572 00:31:50,921 --> 00:31:54,721 as someone who's serving a lifetime jail sentence? 573 00:31:56,561 --> 00:31:57,720 I'm not for an instant 574 00:31:57,721 --> 00:32:00,720 under the impression that politics was always completely moral 575 00:32:00,721 --> 00:32:04,720 and so obviously there have always been issues, but it's very sad that 576 00:32:04,721 --> 00:32:08,080 so few people now feel that politics has any answers for them. 577 00:32:08,081 --> 00:32:11,560 They don't see anything in any of the political, erm, affiliations. 578 00:32:11,561 --> 00:32:14,720 Those who protest outside abortion clinics, 579 00:32:14,721 --> 00:32:17,560 if they do so peacefully, are actually protesting... 580 00:32:17,561 --> 00:32:19,720 'As long as I can still remember what I'm going to say 581 00:32:19,721 --> 00:32:22,720 'when I stand up in council, which isn't guaranteed, 582 00:32:22,721 --> 00:32:24,921 'then I'll, I'll keep doing it for a bit.' 583 00:32:27,721 --> 00:32:29,720 Where do you stand on Brexit? 584 00:32:29,721 --> 00:32:32,720 It's quite an unbelievable occurrence. 585 00:32:32,721 --> 00:32:36,720 It's as if you're asking everybody in Britain to take poison 586 00:32:36,721 --> 00:32:38,720 and say they thought it was for their good health. 587 00:32:38,721 --> 00:32:40,401 So cheers! 588 00:32:41,721 --> 00:32:44,720 The vote wasn't a vote to leave the European Union, 589 00:32:44,721 --> 00:32:47,720 it was a vote against all politicians from whatever parties, 590 00:32:47,721 --> 00:32:50,720 and against the deteriorating society we live in. 591 00:32:50,721 --> 00:32:53,720 I don't think, erm, I was really taught 592 00:32:53,721 --> 00:32:56,720 any sort of policy of living at all by my parents. 593 00:32:56,721 --> 00:32:58,720 This is probably the biggest mistake, 594 00:32:58,721 --> 00:33:00,720 that I was just left to fend myself in a world 595 00:33:00,721 --> 00:33:03,720 which they seem completely oblivious of. 596 00:33:03,721 --> 00:33:06,720 I mean, what's your feeling towards your parents, 597 00:33:06,721 --> 00:33:10,720 both of whom I know passed away? 598 00:33:10,721 --> 00:33:12,720 It's not resentment. 599 00:33:12,721 --> 00:33:15,241 Er, they did their very best. 600 00:33:16,721 --> 00:33:19,720 I don't say this cruelly, a problem within their own personalities, 601 00:33:19,721 --> 00:33:22,720 which caused me unending difficulty. 602 00:33:22,721 --> 00:33:26,400 My father, very serious, very secretive. 603 00:33:26,401 --> 00:33:30,720 He could be very harsh in the punishments he gave out. 604 00:33:30,721 --> 00:33:34,720 My mother, completely different, utterly superficial. 605 00:33:34,721 --> 00:33:36,560 A genuine lover of the arts, 606 00:33:36,561 --> 00:33:40,080 but as much of a dilettante as you could possibly imagine. 607 00:33:40,081 --> 00:33:42,080 So she knew a little about everything, 608 00:33:42,081 --> 00:33:43,721 but not a great deal about... 609 00:33:44,721 --> 00:33:46,720 about very much. 610 00:33:46,721 --> 00:33:49,720 And did you ever have it out with your father? 611 00:33:49,721 --> 00:33:51,721 Oh, many arguments, yeah. 612 00:33:53,081 --> 00:33:56,720 More often than not, my father would just sit in silence. 613 00:33:56,721 --> 00:33:59,721 And my mother would talk, but it was mostly to herself. 614 00:34:00,761 --> 00:34:04,720 When I get married, I don't want to have any children 615 00:34:04,721 --> 00:34:06,720 b-because... 616 00:34:06,721 --> 00:34:11,720 they are always doing naughty things and making the whole house untidy. 617 00:34:11,721 --> 00:34:14,720 Children inherit something from their parents 618 00:34:14,721 --> 00:34:19,720 and even if my wife were the most, erm, high-spirited, and ordinary, 619 00:34:19,721 --> 00:34:21,400 and normal of people, 620 00:34:21,401 --> 00:34:26,720 the child would still stand a very fair chance of being not totally, 621 00:34:26,721 --> 00:34:28,720 er, full of happiness 622 00:34:28,721 --> 00:34:32,721 because what he or she will have inherited from me. 623 00:34:33,721 --> 00:34:37,080 What's happened in your life in the last seven years? 624 00:34:37,081 --> 00:34:41,080 Oh, that, that takes us back to, er, 625 00:34:41,081 --> 00:34:44,720 when I met my current wife. 626 00:34:44,721 --> 00:34:48,720 Erm, and, erm, er... 627 00:34:48,721 --> 00:34:52,920 And four, four or more years of happy marriage and then, er, 628 00:34:52,921 --> 00:34:57,720 an unfortunate series of occurrences, I suppose, 629 00:34:57,721 --> 00:35:01,720 which means we don't see each other very often now. 630 00:35:01,721 --> 00:35:02,721 How did you two meet? 631 00:35:02,722 --> 00:35:04,720 Well, I was performing in the village pantomime 632 00:35:04,721 --> 00:35:07,720 and she came along and watched it. 633 00:35:07,721 --> 00:35:11,720 We courted in the same way that any two 20-year-olds would court. 634 00:35:11,721 --> 00:35:15,720 We walked along the River Tees at Stockton. 635 00:35:15,721 --> 00:35:21,720 There was a lovely restaurant down there that, erm, we used to eat in. 636 00:35:21,721 --> 00:35:23,720 But we did a lot of lovely things together. 637 00:35:23,721 --> 00:35:27,560 I don't for a minute regret that partnership. 638 00:35:27,561 --> 00:35:32,560 I'm just sorry that for reasons I will never fully understand, 639 00:35:32,561 --> 00:35:34,560 it, it, it's got to where it is. 640 00:35:34,561 --> 00:35:40,720 My tendency to get in low moods was not helpful to her. 641 00:35:40,721 --> 00:35:41,721 I quite understand that. 642 00:35:41,722 --> 00:35:44,720 Although she was well aware of that when we got married. 643 00:35:44,721 --> 00:35:50,720 I made some very... strenuous attempts to reconcile us. 644 00:35:50,721 --> 00:35:52,720 We met a couple of times this year. 645 00:35:52,721 --> 00:35:54,720 And I was hoping that things might improve, 646 00:35:54,721 --> 00:35:56,720 but they don't seem to have done. 647 00:35:56,721 --> 00:36:00,720 But as far as I'm concerned, there's time for her to, to reconsider. 648 00:36:00,721 --> 00:36:01,721 Mm. 649 00:36:03,401 --> 00:36:05,241 Whether that'll happen, I don't know. 650 00:36:06,721 --> 00:36:08,920 Do you worry about your sanity? 651 00:36:08,921 --> 00:36:10,920 Other people sometimes worry about it. 652 00:36:10,921 --> 00:36:14,720 Like who? I sometimes can be found 653 00:36:14,721 --> 00:36:17,720 behaving in, in, in an erratic fashion. 654 00:36:17,721 --> 00:36:21,721 Erm, sometimes I get very frustrated, very angry. 655 00:36:22,721 --> 00:36:25,720 Are you having any medical treatment for your mood changes? 656 00:36:25,721 --> 00:36:27,720 No, I haven't for many years. 657 00:36:27,721 --> 00:36:30,720 Because I wouldn't like to be dependent 658 00:36:30,721 --> 00:36:32,221 upon man-made substances for a cure. 659 00:36:32,721 --> 00:36:35,240 Do you ever think you are going mad? 660 00:36:35,241 --> 00:36:39,720 I don't think it, I know it. Er, I, erm... 661 00:36:39,721 --> 00:36:41,721 woke up with... 662 00:36:42,721 --> 00:36:44,921 We're not allowed to use the word mad, but, erm... 663 00:36:46,081 --> 00:36:50,721 You know. I think most people are mad here, really. 664 00:36:51,721 --> 00:36:53,760 It's incredibly difficult to talk about. 665 00:36:53,761 --> 00:36:59,720 Nobody wants to confess that they suffer spells of mental ill health. 666 00:36:59,721 --> 00:37:02,720 Sometimes, if I'm feeling... 667 00:37:02,721 --> 00:37:05,720 particularly depressed, particularly... 668 00:37:05,721 --> 00:37:09,720 There are some situations in which I do want somebody to speak to me, 669 00:37:09,721 --> 00:37:10,760 but there are many situations 670 00:37:10,761 --> 00:37:14,720 in which actually, I want to be left alone till I am feeling better. 671 00:37:14,721 --> 00:37:16,400 And I think that this is perhaps the point 672 00:37:16,401 --> 00:37:18,720 my wife found it particularly hard to, erm... 673 00:37:18,721 --> 00:37:21,240 Because I did say to her, say something to me 674 00:37:21,241 --> 00:37:22,720 if you can see I'm depressed, 675 00:37:22,721 --> 00:37:26,720 but don't keep on saying it, just leave me alone after that. 676 00:37:26,721 --> 00:37:28,720 In the winter, if you lived in the country, 677 00:37:28,721 --> 00:37:30,720 well, it would just be all wet 678 00:37:30,721 --> 00:37:32,720 and there wouldn't be anything for miles around. 679 00:37:32,721 --> 00:37:36,920 And you'd get, and you'd get soaked if you tried to go out. 680 00:37:36,921 --> 00:37:38,721 And there's no shelter anywhere. 681 00:37:39,721 --> 00:37:42,720 I don't see any way out. I thought of everything I possibly could. 682 00:37:42,721 --> 00:37:46,720 It seemed to me for a long time that getting a reliable job, 683 00:37:46,721 --> 00:37:48,720 a nice place to live would be the solution. 684 00:37:48,721 --> 00:37:49,721 Well, I haven't succeeded. 685 00:37:49,722 --> 00:37:53,721 Erm... I can't see any immediate future at all. 686 00:37:55,721 --> 00:37:59,721 Neil still lives in Cumbria, but he's bought a house in France. 687 00:38:00,721 --> 00:38:02,720 So, how long have you had the house? 688 00:38:02,721 --> 00:38:05,560 Two and a half years. 689 00:38:05,561 --> 00:38:08,720 My wife found it on a website for properties. 690 00:38:08,721 --> 00:38:12,720 She persuaded me that it was the one that would suit me the best. 691 00:38:12,721 --> 00:38:14,721 And how did this come about? 692 00:38:15,721 --> 00:38:19,720 After my mother died, there was a... 693 00:38:19,721 --> 00:38:21,720 a legacy divide between my brother and I. 694 00:38:21,721 --> 00:38:26,721 And some of it was able to be put towards this house. 695 00:38:27,721 --> 00:38:32,720 So, tell me what this place means to you. 696 00:38:32,721 --> 00:38:36,720 It's, it's just a lovely, quiet place in the country. 697 00:38:36,721 --> 00:38:40,761 I've, I've lived much of my life in rural places in the past. 698 00:38:41,721 --> 00:38:45,720 I think rural places have a lot of shared values, wherever you go. 699 00:38:45,721 --> 00:38:47,760 People tend to look after one another better. 700 00:38:47,761 --> 00:38:49,720 Communication is easier. 701 00:38:49,721 --> 00:38:52,720 And you'll get good local food and country activity, 702 00:38:52,721 --> 00:38:53,721 and so on, that sort of thing. 703 00:38:53,722 --> 00:38:56,720 But I do miss the towns and the cities sometimes as well. 704 00:38:56,721 --> 00:38:58,720 I miss London, where I lived. 705 00:38:58,721 --> 00:39:01,240 I think if you're healthy and have good friends, 706 00:39:01,241 --> 00:39:02,720 you can get on perfectly well. 707 00:39:02,721 --> 00:39:04,760 But everybody would like to be rich. 708 00:39:04,761 --> 00:39:07,720 If the state didn't give us any money... 709 00:39:07,721 --> 00:39:09,560 it would probably just mean crime. 710 00:39:09,561 --> 00:39:11,853 And I'm glad I don't have to steal to keep myself alive. 711 00:39:15,721 --> 00:39:18,720 How do you manage for money these days? 712 00:39:18,721 --> 00:39:21,720 I'm lucky in that what I earn from being a county councillor 713 00:39:21,721 --> 00:39:25,720 is sufficient for my standards of living. 714 00:39:25,721 --> 00:39:26,721 Bonjour. 715 00:39:26,722 --> 00:39:28,720 Bonjour. Je voudrais, s'il vous plait, 716 00:39:28,721 --> 00:39:30,805 acheter quelque pommes de terres et quelque pommes. 717 00:39:31,721 --> 00:39:33,720 So, since I've been doing that, 718 00:39:33,721 --> 00:39:36,720 I haven't needed to claim any state benefits. 719 00:39:36,721 --> 00:39:39,721 And what a great relief it was not to have to do that. 720 00:39:43,721 --> 00:39:46,720 So, are you frightened of getting old? 721 00:39:46,721 --> 00:39:51,720 I do have concerns. I've always relied on my body very much. 722 00:39:51,721 --> 00:39:53,720 Whatever else has been going on, 723 00:39:53,721 --> 00:39:56,720 I've generally been in excellent physical health. 724 00:39:56,721 --> 00:39:59,720 I never really seriously believed when I was a teenager 725 00:39:59,721 --> 00:40:02,720 that I'd be a pensioner because it just seemed so implausible. 726 00:40:02,721 --> 00:40:05,721 Despite the fact everybody who gets the chance does grow old. 727 00:40:06,921 --> 00:40:09,720 I regret having reached the age I'm at, 728 00:40:09,721 --> 00:40:13,720 I've had no success in the sphere I really want to be successful in. 729 00:40:13,721 --> 00:40:15,720 Being a writer, my instinct 730 00:40:15,721 --> 00:40:18,720 is very much about interaction with the rest of society, 731 00:40:18,721 --> 00:40:21,721 which in my case just hasn't happened, it simply hasn't happened. 732 00:40:22,721 --> 00:40:25,721 Yes, I'd say I believed in God. Are you religious? 733 00:40:26,721 --> 00:40:29,720 Well, I go to church with my parents on Sundays. 734 00:40:29,721 --> 00:40:32,720 Oh, I don't know even now whether I do believe in God or not. 735 00:40:32,721 --> 00:40:34,720 I've thought an awful lot about it, actually. 736 00:40:34,721 --> 00:40:36,081 And, er, I still don't know. 737 00:40:37,401 --> 00:40:40,720 And how has He been treating you? 738 00:40:40,721 --> 00:40:43,720 Well, I said to somebody last week that 739 00:40:43,721 --> 00:40:46,720 I preferred the Old Testament to the New Testament 740 00:40:46,721 --> 00:40:50,720 because in the Old Testament, God is very unpredictable. 741 00:40:50,721 --> 00:40:55,721 Er, and that's, I think, how I've seen Him in my life. 742 00:40:58,721 --> 00:41:00,720 If you haven't already been told, 743 00:41:00,721 --> 00:41:04,720 the proposed pet show is unfortunately cancelled. 744 00:41:04,721 --> 00:41:06,720 I'm a lay minister. 745 00:41:06,721 --> 00:41:09,720 I'm licensed to carry out quite a number of functions. 746 00:41:09,721 --> 00:41:11,720 That includes leading services, 747 00:41:11,721 --> 00:41:13,720 preaching, taking part in the readings, 748 00:41:13,721 --> 00:41:16,400 helping to distribute the communion, and so on. 749 00:41:16,401 --> 00:41:19,720 In fact, I can do more or less everything a priest can do. 750 00:41:19,721 --> 00:41:21,720 In the name of the Father, and of the Son, 751 00:41:21,721 --> 00:41:23,720 - and of the Holy Spirit... - Amen. 752 00:41:23,721 --> 00:41:25,720 Are you still doing that work? 753 00:41:25,721 --> 00:41:27,720 I've just recently been re-licensed 754 00:41:27,721 --> 00:41:30,240 as a reader in the Church of England. 755 00:41:30,241 --> 00:41:32,720 The title reader is really... 756 00:41:32,721 --> 00:41:34,721 that of lay preacher. 757 00:41:38,721 --> 00:41:42,560 I wake up every day and I don't know what's going to happen. 758 00:41:42,561 --> 00:41:45,720 I don't know where I will be in a month's time, six months' time, 759 00:41:45,721 --> 00:41:47,720 a year's time. 760 00:41:47,721 --> 00:41:49,721 But my Christian faith helps me. 761 00:41:56,721 --> 00:41:59,720 It's made a great deal of difference to my life. 762 00:41:59,721 --> 00:42:03,720 I would say I've clearly experienced beneficial effects, 763 00:42:03,721 --> 00:42:07,920 but... that's not what religion is about. 764 00:42:07,921 --> 00:42:11,720 Everybody hopes they do get beneficial results from it, 765 00:42:11,721 --> 00:42:15,720 but really, it's more about having the relationship with God. 766 00:42:15,721 --> 00:42:20,721 In Christianity, that's through Jesus Christ and His teaching. 767 00:42:23,721 --> 00:42:28,080 Every time this programme starts, it says, 768 00:42:28,081 --> 00:42:33,720 "Give me a child until he is seven and I will give you the man." 769 00:42:33,721 --> 00:42:34,760 Mm. Is that true or false? 770 00:42:34,761 --> 00:42:36,720 You're probably in a... you and the audience 771 00:42:36,721 --> 00:42:38,720 are probably in a better position 772 00:42:38,721 --> 00:42:41,760 on the evidence that's been presented. 773 00:42:41,761 --> 00:42:44,720 We don't do much fighting in school 774 00:42:44,721 --> 00:42:48,560 because, because we think it's horrible and it hurts. 775 00:42:48,561 --> 00:42:50,720 You get certain different types of people. 776 00:42:50,721 --> 00:42:52,720 People with different sorts of brains, you know. 777 00:42:52,721 --> 00:42:56,720 From the very sort of, very clever people to, you know, 778 00:42:56,721 --> 00:42:58,720 people who haven't got much sense at all, really. 779 00:42:58,721 --> 00:43:00,720 I wonder why I was like that. 780 00:43:00,721 --> 00:43:03,721 I wonder what it was inside me that made me like that. 781 00:43:05,721 --> 00:43:09,720 And I can see even at 14 then, I was beginning to get more subdued 782 00:43:09,721 --> 00:43:12,720 and I was putting a lot more thought into what I was saying... 783 00:43:12,721 --> 00:43:14,720 to a ridiculous degree. 784 00:43:14,721 --> 00:43:17,720 I mean, you were the classic example 785 00:43:17,721 --> 00:43:20,720 of it not being true. At 7 and 14... 786 00:43:20,721 --> 00:43:23,720 Mm. ..everybody was in love with you. 787 00:43:23,721 --> 00:43:24,721 Yeah. You were... 788 00:43:24,722 --> 00:43:27,240 And now nobody speaks to me. Well, I'm sure they do. 789 00:43:27,241 --> 00:43:31,721 But, you know, your own life went into a kind of freefall, somewhat. 790 00:43:34,721 --> 00:43:37,240 I don't know what sort of stumbling blocks 791 00:43:37,241 --> 00:43:38,720 should be put in, in a child's way 792 00:43:38,721 --> 00:43:41,721 to get him used to living in the outside world. 793 00:43:42,721 --> 00:43:44,720 Because I think maybe this is, 794 00:43:44,721 --> 00:43:46,720 this is something that was wrong in my upbringing, 795 00:43:46,721 --> 00:43:49,240 I didn't have enough obstacles to get over, 796 00:43:49,241 --> 00:43:50,720 to toughen myself up against. 797 00:43:50,721 --> 00:43:53,720 The change of you at 14... Mm. 798 00:43:53,721 --> 00:43:56,720 To the change of you at 21... Yeah. 799 00:43:56,721 --> 00:43:59,721 On the building site was staggering. 800 00:44:00,721 --> 00:44:04,720 How can you explain that vast change? 801 00:44:04,721 --> 00:44:07,720 I thought differently, I had different aspirations. 802 00:44:07,721 --> 00:44:11,080 I wasn't content with a quiet, domesticised life. 803 00:44:11,081 --> 00:44:14,720 I had to go out and... and seek adventure. 804 00:44:14,721 --> 00:44:16,240 And it had its downside 805 00:44:16,241 --> 00:44:20,721 because I hadn't really been well prepared for it in, in my childhood. 806 00:44:22,721 --> 00:44:26,720 What's the happiest time you've had? 807 00:44:26,721 --> 00:44:28,720 I'm just happy when something goes right 808 00:44:28,721 --> 00:44:31,720 and it can be something very straightforward. 809 00:44:31,721 --> 00:44:34,720 If I can get something done for somebody through my council work, 810 00:44:34,721 --> 00:44:35,920 then I'm genuinely happy. 811 00:44:35,921 --> 00:44:37,720 And in my church work, 812 00:44:37,721 --> 00:44:41,720 if I think I'm genuinely communicating something 813 00:44:41,721 --> 00:44:44,921 to people about God, then that delights me inside. 814 00:44:47,721 --> 00:44:49,720 Before I ever met my wife, 815 00:44:49,721 --> 00:44:51,720 I did have a very serious relationship 816 00:44:51,721 --> 00:44:56,400 with an Australian girl, with who I can say truly the only person 817 00:44:56,401 --> 00:44:58,720 I was ever really deeply in love with. 818 00:44:58,721 --> 00:45:01,920 And I think she... she felt similarly towards me. 819 00:45:01,921 --> 00:45:04,560 And she said to me eventually, she said, 820 00:45:04,561 --> 00:45:06,720 "This is an impossible situation, 821 00:45:06,721 --> 00:45:08,720 "not because of what we feel for each other, 822 00:45:08,721 --> 00:45:10,721 "but because we live so far apart." 823 00:45:12,721 --> 00:45:17,920 The idea of true love, which I do think exists, occurs so seldom. 824 00:45:17,921 --> 00:45:20,720 You know, it occurs once in somebody's life, 825 00:45:20,721 --> 00:45:22,720 if they're extremely lucky. 826 00:45:22,721 --> 00:45:23,721 For it then to happen 827 00:45:23,722 --> 00:45:27,721 and then the potential can't be fulfilled is heartbreaking. 828 00:45:36,721 --> 00:45:39,721 We-e-e-e-e! 829 00:45:40,721 --> 00:45:43,240 At the end of their very special day in London, 830 00:45:43,241 --> 00:45:45,721 after their trip to the zoo and the party... 831 00:45:47,401 --> 00:45:50,720 we took our children to an adventure playground, 832 00:45:50,721 --> 00:45:53,400 where they could do just what they liked. 833 00:45:53,401 --> 00:45:55,776 Those from the children's home set about building a house. 834 00:46:07,721 --> 00:46:08,721 There's Nicholas. 835 00:46:14,721 --> 00:46:15,761 And Tony. 836 00:46:21,721 --> 00:46:22,721 Andrew. 837 00:46:26,721 --> 00:46:28,721 John. 838 00:46:32,241 --> 00:46:33,721 And Bruce. 839 00:46:40,721 --> 00:46:41,721 Jackie and her friends. 840 00:46:47,721 --> 00:46:52,721 Give me a child until he is seven and I will give you the man. 841 00:47:01,721 --> 00:47:05,721 This has been a glimpse of Britain's future.